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Munce
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 Posted 03-07-08 05:00 PM   
Greensleeves the monkey isn't gone - he's just in storage in California, moren' two thousand miles away from where my people and I live now in Hawai'i. He can't post while he's locked away, though that doesn't mean he isn't getting into any trouble over there anyway HARRUMPH.
So it's MY job to post about these socks. Greensleeves mentioned 'em in another thread munce ago, but they weren't really on topic for that thread an' anyway they're so special they deserve their own discussion.
My People got a lot of vintage socks off ebay sometime in, was it '06? probably. These socks turned out to be extremely vintage indeed - there is evidence of their age, seems like. Two pairs still have the original price tag attatched - 29 cents, on sale for 13 cents - and several of the socks have those crinkly paper inserts in 'em.
"NELSON ROCKFORD SOCKS 3 FOR 1 GUARANTEE For every imperfect pair returned to the factory, THREE perfect pairs will be sent in exchange. NELSON KNITTING CO. Rockford, Ill. 29 [probably the quality control inspector's number as this number varies] THE RED HEEL MARK IDENTIFIES THE GENUINE MADE By American Workmen For American Workmen - and, along the sides, up and down, THE SOCK AMERICA WEARS TO WORK"
My People did some research into these socks at the time and found out that the store that sold 'em, in Grand Forks, was listed in the local phone book until 1941; there's no listing for it in the 1942 phonebook onwards. Plus, she did some math on a site that tells what old prices are worth nowadays and these socks sold for like $4 a pair in terms of 2005 dollars.
So these socks seem to be made in early 1942 or earlier, if it all adds up.
The heels are indeed kinda orangey BUT the 'mouths' are not nearly so big as you might think - look at my Art Gallery thread. There's a photo of two monkeys made from socks from this lot - Peanut and Minnie May, sittin' together in the back row, he in a fez and she in rainbow pompoms - and you can see the size of their mouths.
(By the way, they arrived cut out into pieces and not sewn up- it was my people who took as many parts as were provided and turned 'em into respectable monkeys! She wants you to know she didn't do any cuttin' or choppin' on such an old lot herself!!) Sunglasses in the picture to show scale - these are some BIG BIG SOCKS. For Bigfoot?
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Munce
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Posted 03-07-08 05:35 PM
And a kit my People got offa ebay a couple munce ago for like $4. THIS IMAGE IS NOT SAFE FOR YOUNG MONKEY EYES AS IT SHOWS LOOSE UNSEWN MONKEY BODY PARTS OH THE HORROR THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE HOOBAJOOB FINDS YOU
anyway.
This kit is copyright 1954. That doesn't necessarily mean it dates to that year, though. Anyway, it's older rather than younger, though, because the stuffing that comes with the kit is kapok; it's in a crinkly cellophane bag with one old-fashioned staple remaining at the top. This kit's interesting because the HAT is finished and was beautifully well-made - but only one arm is present an' it was extremely slipshod work. If this kit's ever finished, the stitches are gonna have to be picked out and resewn. I'm thinking that a human Grandmother wanted to make this kit together with a grandkid and it didn't get too far.
This last pic shows a cut-out heel from this kit on top of one of the socks from the post up above, the socks with the 29 cent price tags. Just for comparison - and the socks from the Jock-o kit have significantly wider heels, though the orangey red color's the same:
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Olivia
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Posted 03-07-08 06:25 PM
I have seen this Jocko the monkey doll kit somewhere....long long ago.......I remember because of the palm tree......geeze....but where?.....Seems like maybe my grandmother had the box..I think....she is where I first saw sock monkeys and she had a tendancy to save everything...
Also..I have some old Rockfords that have the guarantee and the slogan "The Socks America Wears to Work"
They are still bundled...though i did gently remove the wrapper and photocopy it and made a screen of it....So i can make vintage Rockord sock t-shirts and Art.
i am afraid to use the socks.
I have a few different eras of sock...but it is generally really hard to tell how old they are....
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Foofie
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Posted 03-07-08 06:26 PM
You should post a picture.
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Olivia
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Posted 03-07-08 06:27 PM
I will when I get around to it.
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Foofie
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Posted 03-07-08 06:29 PM
The Girl used to use kapok, but she stopped because it flew everywhere and got into the peeples nose and gave them "Stuffing Lung".
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Munce
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Posted 03-20-08 10:22 AM
Spotted at shorpy.com, which is a website dedicated to the posting of photos taken before around 1930, 1940 as much as possible, is this picture. It's HUGE, so here's a link instead of a direct post of it:
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b...pony/15132u.jpg
This picture was taken in around 1909 and is of a bunch of men. They've all just taken showers (the boarding house they are at required them to do this) and are all wearing night shifts - and ROCKFORD SOCKS.
With no red marks on the heels yet, of course.
I wonder if these Rockfords were made by Nelson?
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Foofie
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Posted 03-20-08 03:52 PM
I thought all Rockfords were made by Nelson...
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Red Monkey
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Posted 03-20-08 06:59 PM
Dr. Dan at Sockfest said that Rockford socks were so popular that for a while people just called all socks Rockfords like people say hand me a kleenex today when they really mean tissue. Also, he said they were all made without red heels until other companies started making them to fool people. So, I think he said in 1932, Nelson developed the red heel and patented it so no one else could make those socks.
Dr. Dan's lecture was really interesting. I hope everyone will come next year at the Sockfest.
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Munce
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Posted 03-20-08 09:05 PM
Yeah, that's why Nelson added the red heel in 1932 - so their (original genuine) Rockfords could be told apart from the imitators.
Though it's more an orangey heel than properly red on those old socks. I wonder if the color was originally more red and just chemically universally 'faded' over the years, or if they were that orangey red when new, too?
I would ask Peanut or Minnie May, but they were both made within the last couplea munce, and they can't say what they don't remember. Bah.
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Foofie
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Posted 03-20-08 09:39 PM
Red Dyes are often kinda funny.
I don't have any problems with my skirt or socks, but the Girl said that when she got her first tattoo, all the red stars bubbled up and exploded, and now they are in funny patterns.
It might be that way back then, the red dyes were even funnier.
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Olivia
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Posted 03-20-08 10:09 PM
ok..here are my ancient socks....there is a price written on the back that says .50...though I do not know if that is the actual price.
They seem pretty red to me...in photo, and in person....
just a wee tad orangy....
Anywhoo....um...
I don't know how old these are...but pretty old....
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Munce
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Posted 03-20-08 11:43 PM
Those are some -fine- old socks you have there, Miss Olivia. I think my people is drooling a LITTLE TOO MUCH. I HOPE SHE WIPES THAT UP WITH A TOWEL AND NOT A MONKEY LEG.
Anyway. *shifts away*
Do they have the paper inserts in the toes, too?
Yeah, all the old orangey socks in store-new condition aren't really so orange - until you sit a monkey made from them next to one made from newer/modern socks. Then WOW they look really orange indeed in comparison.
I'm thinking that a lot of the monkeys with really really orange mouths were either made from used, worn socks, or else they faded, given that those pre-1943 socks aren't all THAAAT orange when looked at by themselves.
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Olivia
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Posted 03-21-08 12:01 AM
No paper inserts...they came bundled in twine. The price is written on the back with either old marks-alot or china marker
Yeah..it is my understanding that often times they would take the old worn-out socks and make them into the monkeys for the kids.
I bet they would become more orangy the more often they were washed...my really-old-socks have lived for a few years by themselves in their very own private sewing basket...(away from sunlight) I am afraid to turn them into monkeys..
I did gently take the socks and wrapper at one point and photcopy them..then I made a screen of the lable...for use in sock monkey art and t-shirts...which i have not done in a while....but will do again in the hopes of making money for SHFL..
I have alot of socks from the 70's that I use(not as many as I used to)...and then the FRM's...which trouble me...I mainly only like making upside-downers from them.
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Foofie
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Posted 03-21-08 12:03 AM
And then all the zillions and zillions of weird ordinary socks...like what I am made out of.
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Olivia
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Posted 03-21-08 12:04 AM
You are not exactly made out of ordinary socks. I try not to use ordinary socks if I can help it.
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Munce
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Posted 03-21-08 01:54 AM
My people keeps her old socks packed away out of the light in a big ziplock bag with one of those dessicant packets which I think is a little overboard but whatever. I know she doesn't ever plan to make monkeys with them.
Yeah, the FRM socks are weeeird, aren't they? No corners to the mouth. That doesn't seem to mean monkeys made from them know how to shut up. I WON'T NAME ANY NAMES.
(edit) I mean the motormouths I live with right now. Not anyone on the board here. I'd tip my hat in apology if it weren't SEWN TO MY HEAD.
[Edited by Munce]
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Chelle
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Posted 03-22-08 12:37 PM
I hate to show my ignorance, but what does FRM stand for?
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Olivia
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Posted 03-22-08 12:48 PM
Fox River Mills...makers of the modern red-heel socks
..the Rockford pattern was sold to them after the Nelson Knitting Company went under.
Modern red heels.
It is nice that another company stepped up and took over the pattern, but the newer socks are different...no seam between the cream and brown at the ankle...but there is a seam at the toe...
The toe is smaller, so it is harder to make "white faced" monkeys..
The heel is an oval shape instead of the smile...so monkeys start out with a more neutral expression..
You can still make great monkeys with the modern red heels...I am just spoiled, having aquired a large quantity of vintage Rockfords a long time ago.
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You can make a new monkey out of old socks, but you can't make an old monkey out of new socks.
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Munce
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Posted 04-04-08 08:08 AM
I got my hands on one of my people's books and was reading it. On page 21 of Everything's Coming Up Sock Monkeys, I came across something REAL INTERESTING.
On that page is a bunch of old ads for sock monkey instruction books and do-it-yourself-kits. One of those ads is REAL INTERESTING on three counts.
From the April, 1960 Pac-o-Fun: A hobby store(!) offers you 3 pairs of Nelson regular socks for $1, or... "Also Available: Special assorted package of new EXTRA HEAVY Nelson socks. These socks have been designed especially for making longer lasting and more professional looking Sock Toys. Each package contains 3 pairs, one each: Brown and White Tweed Body, White Toes and Cuffs, Red Heel, Brown Body, White Toes and Cuffs, Gray Body with Red Heels"
So... the things that stood out to me were a) "NEW" heavier weight socks, b) GRAY REDHEELED SOCKS, and c) red-heel-free brown socks. I always wondered why some obviously old monkeys made from Rockfords didn't have the mouth - there couldn't have been that many survivors at all made with socks dating from the pre-De-Tec-Tip era, if really much of any were made to begin with. (I guess the non-redheels could also have been made from competitor's Rockfords.)
So this might explain all those gray monkeys that we've been thinking were just faded blue ones.
It also casts a light of doubt on the age of Peanut and Minnie May, because both of them are a) made from one gray and one brown sock b) their skins are knitted from substantially heavier yarns than the monkey skin that came in that 50s Jock-O kit from Nelly Bee. (When did imitation redheeled Rockfords first appear? I want to make sure the socks from that kit are really Nelson Rockford and not an imitator's.)
My people is going to do more research into the history of the company on the price tags on the socks and will also send a scan of that guarantee to the curator at Midway. Maybe he can tell us the years Nelson used that insert?
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Red Monkey
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Posted 04-04-08 08:44 AM
Great work, Munce. Since I became Mr. Sockford 2008, I find that I am developing a strong interest in these historical and technical matters. I look forward to your future reports
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Chester Poindexter
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Posted 04-04-08 09:23 AM
Good Day! That is quite interesting indeed, Mr. Munce. Thank you for your report and I look forward to the next one as well.
While perusing around the hobby area here at home one day, I discovered that Beanie must have acquired some new monkey skins that I had not observed before. They are truly plain gray without tweedishness at all. They have a red heel but no white whatsoever - not on the heel nor on the cuff part. She has not commenced to making a monkey out of them. I had to hastily close the bin and leave the room though due to the fact that Munky was coming and I was afraid he would become ill if he saw all the skins in the bin. Thank you.
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merle
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Posted 04-04-08 09:57 AM
From 1960 you say? My tail and arms are grey, but I feel like I've been on the road at least that long.
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knitty
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Posted 04-04-08 10:04 AM
There were different gauges and colors farther back. Someone found an old catalog page and posted it munce ago. There was a grey (sometimes called blue) sold as individual pairs way back in the old days. The girl has some of those, with an orange mouth and a fine knit. They seem a lot older and more scarce than the bright blue snobby... er.. um... elite socks people fight for these days.
Then there is the mystery of Mr. Fancy Buttons. He might not even be from Rockford. He just showed up here one day in the girl's brother's luggage and decided to stay. Nice enough fellow, but he has no clue where he was loomed.
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Sally
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Posted 04-04-08 10:43 AM
EEEEEEE! I like Mr. Fancy Buttons! He is cute!
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Munce
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Posted 04-04-08 07:05 PM
Hi Knitty! Do you have a copy of that picture or a link to the thread? Do you think you could work on your human to take a picture of the socks you mention and post them to the thread?
And yeah, the gray ones sure do seem far more rare than the bright blue ones. But that's not so surprising, cause Nelson made the bright blue ones through 1991 (the blue socks are pictured in that last-ever catalog.) (Or was it '92?)
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googlie
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Posted 04-04-08 09:08 PM
quote:
knitty wrote:
...
Then there is the mystery of Mr. Fancy Buttons. He might not even be from Rockford. He just showed up here one day in the girl's brother's luggage and decided to stay. Nice enough fellow, but he has no clue where he was loomed.
Hi Mysterious Mr Fancy Buttons! I love mysteries. Also conundrums. And whatever you call it when i read about you while you are reading about me!
Hey Cinnamon! How are you?? Lots of April Showers here in Bull City, NC. Also lots of flowers.
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cinnamon
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Posted 04-05-08 04:07 AM
Hi Googlie-
I'm doing well. Coco's been keeping me busy as a fit model for her clothing line because she thinks I'm kind of average size for the modern monkeys, which seems weird because I'm taller than most of the vintage citizens of Smonkeytown. Does anyone else think that us younger Iowa monkeys are taller than previous generations?
Here it's all flowers and no showers, so I think the peeps are going to have to ration the garden watering this summer.
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googlie
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Posted 04-05-08 06:41 PM
quote:
cinnamon wrote:
Hi Googlie-
I'm doing well. Coco's been keeping me busy as a fit model for her clothing line because she thinks I'm kind of average size for the modern monkeys, which seems weird because I'm taller than most of the vintage citizens of Smonkeytown. Does anyone else think that us younger Iowa monkeys are taller than previous generations?
how tall are you, cinnamon?
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cinnamon
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Posted 04-06-08 02:51 AM
quote:
googlie wrote:
how tall are you, cinnamon?
Twenty one inches from head to toe, but almost half that is my long legs.
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